Improvement on basing rules (Due to the no-collider tool being removed)

Status
Not open for further replies.

DrakePistilli

Staff member
Senior Staff
Server Staff
Feb 22, 2018
147
51
108
22
As many of you know the no-collide tool has been removed and people came up with new designs for their bases.

As you all know, changing the base designs comes with some flaws aswell (for example the amount of people headglitching).

I would like to suggest a improvement on the basing rules, so that is why I would like to ask everyone to share their thoughts on rules that he/she thinks that should be implemented.
Sharing these thoughts does not mean that the rules will be implemented, these rules will be looked into and tested in game.

A few rules I would like to see being added to the rules:
- The whole body of the defender has to be visible when he is able to shoot at the attackers (This eliminates the headglitching)
- Both parties must be able to shoot at any part of the body, so no more building where they have to stand in a specific area next to a prop to shoot back at the defender, as in peaking on the side of a crouch where the defender can shoot your body and you can't shoot back. (Also known as angle abuse but often allowed as you "Just have to find the right location")
- So called ladder entrances are not allowed anymore (Where the defender is able to shoot you Up/down the ladder), you can only use this if you create a space where the attackers can stand before they enter the maze.
- Only 2 angles to shoot from (Left + front, left + right, front + right, 2 floor in front, 2 floor on your left, 2 floors on your right etc..) this is a big issue aswell
- There is a rule where the maze can only be 8x8 in size, there is no rule about the defense. I think we should implement a rule where the max length of the defence cannot exceed 10x10 or to far away from the actual maze which gives you some room to build your defenses but no massive wall where he can be peaking from. this also makes it so that the defender cannot create a base where you can only shoot with a sniper as the snipers have a longer range then the rifles and sub machine guns in the game.

These are some of my ideas, I would like to hear your thoughts about it and maybe additions to these rules.
 
swans-jailer
Apr 27, 2018
152
36
58
22
As many of you know the no-collide tool has been removed and people came up with new designs for their bases.

As you all know, changing the base designs comes with some flaws aswell (for example the amount of people headglitching).

I would like to suggest a improvement on the basing rules, so that is why I would like to ask everyone to share their thoughts on rules that he/she thinks that should be implemented.
Sharing these thoughts does not mean that the rules will be implemented, these rules will be looked into and tested in game.

A few rules I would like to see being added to the rules:
- The whole body of the defender has to be visible when he is able to shoot at the attackers (This eliminates the headglitching)
- Both parties must be able to shoot at any part of the body, so no more building where they have to stand in a specific area next to a prop to shoot back at the defender, as in peaking on the side of a crouch where the defender can shoot your body and you can't shoot back. (Also known as angle abuse but often allowed as you "Just have to find the right location")
- So called ladder entrances are not allowed anymore (Where the defender is able to shoot you Up/down the ladder), you can only use this if you create a space where the attackers can stand before they enter the maze.
- Only 2 angles to shoot from (Left + front, left + right, front + right, 2 floor in front, 2 floor on your left, 2 floors on your right etc..) this is a big issue aswell
- There is a rule where the maze can only be 8x8 in size, there is no rule about the defense. I think we should implement a rule where the max length of the defence cannot exceed 10x10 or to far away from the actual maze which gives you some room to build your defenses but no massive wall where he can be peaking from. this also makes it so that the defender cannot create a base where you can only shoot with a sniper as the snipers have a longer range then the rifles and sub machine guns in the game.

These are some of my ideas, I would like to hear your thoughts about it and maybe additions to these rules.
+1 raiding is literally dogshit impossible and defending is so easy now. Needs to be balanced heavily and I agree with all of these points
 
swans-jailer
Reactions: Steezy

DrakePistilli

Staff member
Senior Staff
Server Staff
Feb 22, 2018
147
51
108
22
So it was more balanced before with nocollide when you could just back and forth through your props?
It was easier before as you had a delay before you where able to shoot as the gun got put down where you couldnt shoot and it took, say 1 second before you where able to shoot..

So ye it was easier before had more time to shoot back.
 
swans-jailer

DrakePistilli

Staff member
Senior Staff
Server Staff
Feb 22, 2018
147
51
108
22
Then we might reverse it and go back to that system.
Dont think any system should be changed, the No-collide tool could cause crashes.

Improviseren These rules Will make it balanced again, changing the system Will put it back into the old state where people Will exploit the No-collide tool and possibly crash the server.
 
swans-jailer

Xirii

Supreme Meme
DPRK
Nov 30, 2015
1,180
864
273
26
Hull, GB
I think the greater issue here is that people are exploiting visibility still - which occurred even with no-collide.

A lot of your issues sound like stuff that should be dealt with as the bases are clearly failbase if they aren't equal

An equal base means visibility, angles, shooting capability must be identical on both sides.
 
swans-jailer

Drewbie

Staff member
Owner
Nov 30, 2015
1,309
948
258
26
Dont think any system should be changed, the No-collide tool could cause crashes.

Improviseren These rules Will make it balanced again, changing the system Will put it back into the old state where people Will exploit the No-collide tool and possibly crash the server.
We have another fix for it we could try.
 
swans-jailer

DrakePistilli

Staff member
Senior Staff
Server Staff
Feb 22, 2018
147
51
108
22
There are alot of things we could try, but we tried so much by now. I think if we’d start enforcing These rules (or as Xirii Said Just enforce the “bases must be equal” rule) that we eliminate the whole unraidable base part.

If you think trying the other system Will work, give it a go.

If you look back at both systems, there are still people who Find loopholes, for example the covers used... Just stop hiding 50+% of your body to gain a advantage over other people. Defenders can see attackers fully but the attacker can only see the defender’s shoulders and head.
 
swans-jailer

Xirii

Supreme Meme
DPRK
Nov 30, 2015
1,180
864
273
26
Hull, GB
You have to balance how someone would interpret those rules.

The issue is making them extremely specific causes people to just build something that works around them. Too broad, and people won't understand what you are referring to.

It's quite clear in the rules already, you can't make an un-raidable base, and a base which shows any bias is not allowed. You merely have to test bases, and enforce them. Use your better judgement to decide the balance and take all aspects into account.
 
swans-jailer
Apr 27, 2018
152
36
58
22
New suggestion, keep the current system with having to peek over a prop but making sure the waist is visible rather than the torso, this is because when holding a weapon your model crouches over a little so when you peek forwards and back really fast it basically creates a headglitch which is impossible to react too unless you're jesus.

Or we could implement another rule, the idea I have is that your shields must be transparent (not completely) but enough so you can see where the defender is, but that then defeats the element of surprise. I understand that but it makes it fair for the attacker because it gives them an easier chance to react to those 'head glitch peeks'
 
swans-jailer
Reactions: Steezy
Apr 27, 2018
152
36
58
22
Another idea, instead of moving forward to peel over a prop, there would be a two man wide gap between one way props so you would have to peek into the open gap meaning your whole body would be exposed. This basically works the same as no collide because you’re exposing your whole body the only difference is you’re not walking through anything, this would be perfect for raiding and defending because it gives an equal chance for both defenders and raiders to hit each other (whole body). Looking over my other two suggestions I feel as if this one would work the best and would probably be the fix to all the headglitching and unfair peeks.
 
swans-jailer

Drewbie

Staff member
Owner
Nov 30, 2015
1,309
948
258
26
I have another piece of code to prevent the exploit which allows us to nocollide stuff, I'll reverse it for now. If anyone feels the system we are on now better with no nocollide at all then you can say so. However to be on that system we would have to rework the rules a bit, so for now I think the best choice is to just swap back to what we know works and have for a long time.
 
swans-jailer
Status
Not open for further replies.